Mental Health Spotlight: Q&A with Ashley White, The Gentleman Lumberjack
When we heard of a story called Nature Saved My Life, you bet your hiking boots we were intrigued. Listening to the Out There podcast, we came across a story that spoke to us; one about mental wellness, acceptance, and inspiration.
Ashley was a man who’d experienced some trauma which, unbeknownst to him, led to PTSD which manifested in anxiety and panic attacks. With the stigma of mental illness hanging over the black community, he’d never considered therapy until he decided to give it a go--finding the right person to help him and the benign suggestion that they simply go for a walk.
The more he walked the better he felt, and the closer he got to nature the more he felt the weight of the world lifted off his shoulders. Irrational fears slowly disappeared as if a steady breeze rustling through leaves on a sunny afternoon had blown them away. He claims that it was nature that saved his life. So, we decided to dig a little deeper into his multi-dimensional wellness journey and how nature has helped him improve not only his life but also that of those around him.
Hello, Ashley! Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. First, tell us a little about yourself--what you do, where you’re from?
I am born and bred in the Midwest, which I think is the best kept secret of beauty in our country. It’s truly just not “fly over” country. Work for a major retailer in the D&I space building equitable experience for marginalized groups in corporate settings. I am a husband, father, sneaker head, and outdoor enthusiast.
How did you end up becoming an Out There ambassador and how did you telling your story come to be?
Well, as the podcast was growing, the leadership team put out a call for ambassadors to join to help tell stories, grow subscribers, and support the podcast’s purpose. I thought it was a great opportunity and took a swing at applying. I had the pleasure of being selected with a number of other wonderful souls that I really enjoy serving with.
We were all given the opportunity to be introduced on the show and provide context to what nature meant to us in the episode you referenced. It was my first time speaking to my mental struggles and telling my wife’s story. I was frightened that my job would hear it and I would be blacklisted or my children would listen and would think less of me as a father. To my surprise, neither happened and those feelings which I created out of thin air never materialized. My place of work embraced my narrative and my children understood my occasional need to just be alone in nature for a couple hours. Sharing the story for the world to hear freed me from the burden of hiding from my issues and allowed me to help others do the same if they were comfortable.
Ashley white aka the gentleman lumberjack
Well, we’re glad you did! We’ve shared a link to your Out There episode up top. But in case some haven’t heard it, tell us why nature saved your life?
I articulate this as nature provides me a space to slow down and digest my emotions without the constant pace of information, people, noise, and stressors. It was the only place to find peace. The only place where you are able to find silence. Reconnecting to nature allowed me to strengthen every relationship I’d strained due to mental illness. People often forget to acknowledge the toll it takes on a family when someone is really struggling and it’s hard for everyone. My marriage, my fatherhood experience and engagement with the world outside my head felt less like a weight everyday. I’d never say I wanted to die, rather the feeling was more about not knowing how to live. If you listen to the episode, I was introduced to being more mindful outside by a therapist. It seemed like a strange idea however it was the best technique I received to manage my emotions, without medication, to a state of healthy wellbeing.
You talk about how you feel that anxiety melt away when you’re active in nature. Why do you think that is for you?
Well now science has caught up to this phenomenon of how nature can soothe and trigger physiological changes in the body and mind. I am not a doctor and try not to speak on that however I will share my experience. I think nature provides me a grounding (no pun intended) to all of the inputs we have stored that we may not be aware of. For me, three days in nature backpacking resets me mentally and emotionally. I have the capacity to better problem solve, I sleep through the night, I often re-find faith. Those three things pretty much resolve my anxiety at a level I can’t work through on my commute to work, constant meetings, kids running around and stepping on Legos.
This is exactly why we’re big fans of your story— because it speaks to us on so many levels. Your story is a multidimensional one that many people can relate to; as everyday people finding themselves experiencing anxiety, as professionals, as parents, as people of color. Tell us, after sharing it, have you seen a shift in perceptions from any of these particular groups.
I have personally seen a shift with the people I am closest to. The stigma of mental health as a man, a black man, and a head of household is taboo. The generation ahead of me, in my community, often taught very toxic lessons about masculinity and even still the conversations are often awkward and painful for all parties but the dialogue is now open and becomes easier with every “at bat.” Professionally, I am super privileged to work in a space where our differences are seen as strengths and my testimony for mental health helps me serve others with a greater impact. It allows me to be completely empathic but also connect on a level that is needed. For example, if you’ve never experienced not getting out of bed for a week because you “just felt heavy” how do you relate and build complete trust? It can be done, but a shared experience makes it easier. I am able to use my privilege to help others in my personal and professional life. Perspectives are shifting slowly but shifting towards the positive nonetheless.
That’s amazing to hear. Getting more specific, as a black man, you speak about the stigma of acknowledging or talking about mental health. How do you hope this story will affect people who hear it and may have some of those doubts?
I bring this up in every Black male forum I can. I hope this story showcases that struggling mentally or physically is not a sign of weakness. Get help and build the skills to manage your issues. If not for you, for those you are responsible for. It sounds like a cheesy instagram quote but, self care is needed for the strongest of men and it's okay not to be okay. What isn’t okay is not getting help. I know there are certain systemic barriers to that as well but at the least find someone to talk to. A friend, a loved one and/or one of the many free programs that can assist discreetly.
You also talk about time with your daughters in nature. It was so interesting to hear how after a while those gender norms disappear and they’re free to be who they are, without the pressures that young women face in society. Can you tell us more about that? Have you asked them? How do they feel or perceive that experience (or is it beyond them)?
My teenagers face an enormous amount of societal pressure at the moment. The world has become much smaller and they aren’t just worried about a high school presence. They now face a global pressure through social media and its effects. I’ll note all of which aren’t negative but many can have a compounding negative effect if they take a bad bounce with their peers. When in nature, this gets lost. They “rewild” and return to the little curious outdoor children that seems lost for their generation. They wake up and instead of thinking of their phone, or how they look, they immediately imagine games and slow down. When they saw stars for the first time without light pollution, they didn’t recognize the sky and thought there were new stars. They just couldn’t digest the night sky so full of stars. When we discuss their “rewilding” they recognize it’s value but still prefer a life with their cell phone and Tik Tok videos. What is important to me is that they understand balance and know a place of peace when needed.
There’s something beautiful that happens when we disconnect from the phones and laptops and give into being present. Nature can definitely amplify that by 100. But right now, it seems that our human connections are dictated by digital screens especially in times of COVID-19 (as if life weren’t anxiety-inducing enough!) How do you balance that in order to keep you and your family mentally healthy?
It’s been easier for me to disconnect with Covid-19 keeping us home. I own my entire space and when my day is over, it’s over. I taught my daughter to fly a kite on my lunch break, whereas in the office I normally work through lunch or get called into a meeting and it sits on my desk until I can find a quick minute to eat as much as possible before walking into my next meeting. The balance at home gives me additional power on when and where I show up. Everyone doesn’t have this flexibility. I again am privileged to live near a ton of green space that we can take advantage of and social distancing is a manageable inconvenience for breathing fresh air as Spring finally comes out of its hibernation. The most important thing I try to do is continue doing mindfulness exercises at least once a day outdoors when the weather permits. We are now teachers, employees, parents and spouses. That’s a lot. Prioritizing a half hour in the sun to just sort is my key to success.
Why The Gentleman Lumberjack? (Love that name, btw)
The Gentleman Lumberjack is a nod to the intersectionality of who I am. If you saw me as a corporate leader in a tuxedo at a speaking event versus chopping wood for warmth at a winter camp you wouldn’t think I was the same person. I feel like people believe it’s “van life” or bust. I am not less outdoorsy because currently I can’t just live a full time outdoors lifestyle. I play in both worlds with equal commitment, tux and axe, though my heart leans into the Lumberjack.
What are some of your favorite outdoor adventures that you’ve had?
My favorite activity is Winter camping and Summer kayaking. Though I love them the most they are often not done due to making sure I get my children in on as many adventures as possible. Last year I kayaked and island hopped the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior which was just a phenomenal experience. Though hard, mosquito ridden, and chilly, it was a wonderful growth experience and I met some of the most amazing people.
Ashley, doing what he loves
Ashley speaking at the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture